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Disbiosis Question
03-26-2013, 07:50 PM
Post: #1
Disbiosis Question
Is dysbiosis is different than leaky gut??

How do you treat dysbiosis?

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Leaky gut or gut hyperpermiability can have many causes, including food allergies/intolerances, auto-immune disorders, dysbiosis, drugs induced inflamation, infections, environmental toxins etc.

If you suspect leaky gut to be a problem, there is a very simple test... the so-called lactulose/mannitol challenge test

Patients with suspected leaky gut are fasted and then ingest 5 grams each of mannitol and lactulose. Mannitol, a monosaccharide (small molecule), is passively transported through the intestinal wall and is expected to be present in the blood; around 15% of the dose appears in the urine (range 5-25%). Lactulose on the other hand is a disaccharide (a larger molecule) and is not normally absorbed; less than 1% of the administered dose appears in the urine.

An abnormal result occurs when lactulose appears in significant amounts (over 3% is definitely positive), which means that the gut is allowing through bigger molecules than normal. In fact it is the ratio of lactulose/mannitol which is reported. Normally it should be <0.03. But also if the mannitol decreases this test also infers that malabsorption is taking place.

If food allergy is suspected as the cause of either leaky gut or malabsorption, the test is repeated after a defining meal.

If the test proves positive for leaky gut syndrome, your Doctor then needs to schedule further tests to identify its cause

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Thanks, I do have multipe intolerances from leaky gut ...I have been advised that the leaky gut causes the inolerances...

I'll see what she says next time thanks mate

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Maybe yout Dysbiosis is Gilberts related?

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Hi. I am just wondering what your opinion is regarding the possibility of it being the underlying condition in M.E/CFS/Dysbiosis? I have read that our livers typically detox 30% slower than average and that there is a four fold increase of Gilberts sufferers in CFS/M.E. Have any of your past approaches focused on primarily treating this liver pathway and if so did you improve? Just curious and hope you dont mind sharing? Many Thanks

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Hi, I think Gilberts is a complication in my malady - the Doctor's I have consulted do not. The nutritionist's I have consulted are generally agnostic.

As I have chronic dysbiosis and I am a chronic pathological detoxifier it must be a factor.

If the dysbiosis is deconjugating the toxins from this pathway and sending them back to the liver in Retoxification. This pathway - which I think is the biggest - will become overwhelmed. This will cause a spill over to the other pathways which are also being hammered by dysbiotic Retoxification. Glutathione becomes depleted and the liver and detoxification has become dysfunctional and thus a pathological detoxifier is born.

One way to support Gilberts is to have a symbiotic digestive tract - starting from the colon the mothership - and then no deconjugation will occur or it will be minimal.

The only supplement I have found that supports conjugation is Calcium D-Glucarate.

Personally I'm going for mega anal dosages of Bifido into the colon and maybe some Calcium D-Glucurate.

This will hopefully reduce the toxic burden on the liver as the friendly flora acidify my colon and munch and expel nasty bacteria.

If my bile becomes alkaline meaning more bile salts then my dysbiosis increases and when my bile is acidic the dysbiosis goes down. I am sure my colon is pretty alkaline and the bifido should alter this.

As I am in a vicious spiral it is one step at a time.

I am happy to discuss this with you - feel free to ask any questions - it's all real time living!!

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Thanks for explaining. I think I can see how in theory the addition of Bifido Bacteria would help but I cannot break the vicious circle. I have tried to do this very very slowly but introducing just a small amount of bacteria causes me liver toxicity with more liver symptoms. My liver pathways just seem overwhelmed and unable to cope. I feel the Gilberts certainly has a knock-on effect in that it places an extra load on all my other pathways - its just knowing where to start.

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How about trying Calcium D-Glucarate.

How do you take probiotics and which strains and brands have you tried.

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I take Lamberts Acidophilus Extra - their lowest dose orally but its enough to give me die-off. I wondered about taking Calcium D- Glucarate - have you tried to take this and how did you feel? Also - just curious - how do you know your bile goes salty? What symptoms does this give you?

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I have a pot in the cupboard. I did try it once over two years ago but I was so ill and my body reacted to everything. I am now a bit better and willing to try it again. When I did take it I noticed my stool was a golden colour rather a dark murky colour.

As to my bile which for me is a leading indicator of how my liver is functioning:

If my bile salts are higher than my bile acids I get dry skin on my hands, feet, knees and I am dehydrated, my tongue is dry, dysbiosis increases as my gut becomes more alkaline.

If my bile acids are higher than the bile salts I have smooth skin, I am not dehydrated, dysbiosis is less, my teeth hurt if the acids are very high.

Plus I can taste which is higher. If they are in balance there is no taste and the above symptoms are gone.

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Wow you are very in tune with your liver. Good for you. I wish you much success with the introduction of the Custom Probiotics (very pricey by the way but supposed to be good). Please keep posting any positive or negative effects - its very interesting. Many Thanks for all the info.

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Hello, Do either of you have trouble with sulphur? MSM? Garlic? I'm wondering if it is due to the Gilbert's affect on a detoxy pathway.

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Hi , As to sulfur it causes me problems big time.

It makes my bile go very salty and thus a big dysbiotic upsurge.

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I dont know if I have problems as such with those things (i.e intolerance) but I know for a fact they all give me die-off or create the release of toxins in one way or another.

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As far as die-off, do you mean fatigue, blotchy vision? It's hard to know if the MSM is moving mercury or if it's a reaction to the sulpher pathways.

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For me die-off is usually heavy muscles (legs, arms), fatigue, lethargy, anxiety, depression and an awful ear pain. I probably do have a mercury problem too but I just cannot do much about it right now with my liver problems - I dont think it could deal with much else!

I read your post earlier this month about Patricia Kane detox. Could you tell us how yours is going. I read the link about neurotoxins. They said using phospholipids in the liver flush would help get rid of liver toxins. Do you know what they mean by phospholipids. All I know is olive oil for liver flush and orthophosphoric acid. Do you know about this? Thanks

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I had to stop after two capsules of PhosChol as I had a negative reaction in my liver - my guess is it upset Phase 1.

The protocol is logical but my Phase 1 and 2 are so dysfunctional that when I take a substance that in any way alters the speeds I go very wonky.

My new strategy is to look at implanting bifido anally so it hits the colon quickly. I read that a dysbiotic colon puts a great toxic strain on the liver and deconjugates toxins for recirculation to the liver.

Seemingly the Natren Bifido is made with lactulose which is very helpful in treating liver toxicity.

The basic idea behind PhosChol is to do a lipid exchange. As a toxin sites in the fat membrane, if you shunt a specific membrane fat like PhosChol it exchanges with the toxic fat particle which is then excreted without the toxin being released. Very clever. The Russions use it big time after a heavy vodka session by IV!

Patricia Kane has written a book on the subject and this would be a good investment if you want to study this further.

Good fortune!

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Hi, Thanks for answering. So are they saying to take Phoschol while you do a liver flush. By liver flush I mean the one that is generally spoken of here olive oil, lemon juice thing. When and how much of the phoschol are you supposed to take. Thanks for your input.

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I don't think it is a liver flush. The call it a Liver Detoxx. You also take some other substances - fatty acids, etc.

You take the Phos Chol by capsule or IV.
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